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- Reading responses must be AT LEAST 250 words.
- Include your full name at the end of your comments. Unnamed comments will be deleted.
- From the "Comment As" drop-down menu, choose Anonymous, then click "Publish."
- Reading responses are due by midnight on the night PRIOR to our discussion of the required reading.
In chapter three Details, Details I found the chapter to be very helpful. Usually I am that person who hates too much detail, but after reading this chapter I see it in another perspective. I know now that details are necessary in your writing. I found it interesting to read the general/specific examples throughout the chapter, there have huge differences. I think it’s interesting how you can use details in different levels, like mentioned on page 64 “imagery that works on two levels”. You have the way things are, and imagery is your way in to material. Details create images for the readers and that’s what writing is about. I had never heard of thinking small before and I would have to agree with what they talked about in this chapter. In the chapter it mentions how if you think small you allow a much more complex and less easily categorized picture to emerge. Overall the chapter was very useful.
ReplyDeleteIn The Things Carried, I believe O’Brien did such a fantastic job with the five senses and how he created visuals for the readers. He gave so many details in this story but I actually found it interesting. It had so much detail about what the soldiers carried with them, but it also had a good story between Lieutenant Cross and Martha. The story with the letters is what kept me interested in this story. The details about what they carried was also interesting and how he described how much everything weighed was crazy to me. For someone like myself who has no idea what it is to be a soldier this story really showed us and gave us great images.
Lizette Garcia
Isaac J McCoy
ReplyDeleteChapter Response
I learned nothing from this chapter that I already did not know. Transitioning from general descriptions or imagery to specific is something I love to do in my stories. Layering my themes within the details pertaining to specific characters or locations is like in movies when each character or landscape gets a certain melody to associate with it; that is how I view themed layering in details, it creates the foundation for the soul which I form in my stories. Honestly; writing a good story is like writing poetry to me, if I could write forever than truly my life would be bliss and blessed.
Story Response
Do not misunderstand me, I like the story; but I think there is such a thing as too much detail, not enough dialogue. There was so much description felt overwhelmed, lost in a sea of words. It seemed as though there was no room for me to fill in gaps with imagination, my mind was simply procuring what was being dictated to me and I had no choice as to what to imagine for the story. It sucked, I enjoy stories that give me freedom in envisioning missing details and explanations. By removing those freedoms, the story lacks the cooperation between writer and reader as many good stories have in them. I want to be working with the writer to see the story, not just being along for the ride to wherever I am being taken.
This chapter is one I am going to dog-ear, particularly the exercises. Putting imagery or describing things in detail has never really been a strong suit of mine. I know that’s the juicy, fatty parts of a story for some people – certainly LaPlante – but for, I’ve never really needed excess detail. Usually, whenever I read a book the bits that have the most description, the most “flower”, you could say, are the bits that lose my attention (I have piss poor attention anyways, but still). I feel this is the proper explanation for why my writing sometimes feels simplistic or even forced, at least when it comes to description, because it’s not instinctual to me. Certainly, I can improve in this area because it is important to have description to immerse the reader properly. I disagreed with LaPlante when she stated that we shouldn’t leave the reader to imagine some details of the description – that we should tell them everything. I personally think that while having that amount of detail is great, I like the imaginative aspect of fiction; that is to say we all put our own spin on a story.
ReplyDeleteO’Brien’s “The Things They Carried” was a good read about the experiences of those men during the war. It was nice to see how O’Brien went from describing some of the personal items and weapons each men carried to more abstract emotional and psychological baggage each one of them carried. There was a lot of detail in the story – some may get a sensory overload – but this is one story I can revisit as a sort of lesson on how to be descriptive.
Chano Martinez
As we have discussed before in our class, details within our stories are important to create a scene for your audience. As writers, there is an obligation to assist the reader in placing them inside the scenery that we have placed for them. Right from the introduction, the chapter makes emphasis on not only using your five senses, but to think small when writing descriptions. In addition, Flanner O’ Connor’s quote was interesting. She essentially is stating that we are one with the world around us, therefore we should be able to describe our surroundings. In addition, she gives a description that we are made up of dust, which is her way of stating that we are part of the sensory world. Furthermore, as we have discussed in previous chapters and in our workshops, it is important to be specific with our details and not general or abstract. When LaPlante mentions that, “there is no such thing as a completely objective image”, I was enlightened to read this since there is not “right” or “one true way” of describing a scenery or giving a specific detail. Meaning, based on who is narrating the story, then the writer can mold the description to further compliment the mood of who is giving the details. Finally, near the latter of the chapter, the portions about similes and metaphors was also encouraging since these types of details possess many attributes for an author. In addition, it is always important for a writer to craft new similes and metaphors to prevent their audience from thinking they are trying to take the easy route when it comes to detailing their work.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the story, I believe I have a copy of the book around somewhere on my bookshelf. Initially, the book was a gift for my grandfather who is a veteran and served in World War II. The point of this? Well, the book is essentially a novel on war, and having conversations with my grandfather about when he served was reminiscent for me when I read the excerpt. Reason being is when my grandfather used to talk about when he served, he was specific in his descriptions and would emphasize that everything had to be tracked of, such as time or inventory. Thus, the details that the narrator is giving to the audience is evident to this type of practice that are carried out by troops. Right from the beginning of the passage, the narrator can give vivid backstory for characters, as well as annotate everything that they are carrying. In addition, war can have an emotional toll on soldiers, so the narrator does throw in some poetic devices on a certain section. On page 86, the narrator describes not only the physical necessities that the troops had to carry around, but as well as the emotional bearings that accompany them. For example, the narrator states, “They shared the weight of memory. They took up what others could no longer bear.” This is a great use of figurative language and detailing since memory is an abstract item, the author can see that the weight of a memory is a heavy load to carry by yourself.
Patricio Hernandez (P.J.)
Honestly while reading chapter 3 I felt as if I was being scolded a little bit. But in a good way. I’ve often been the kind of writer who will purposely stay away from too many physical details because, as a reader, I tend to get bored if the writer spends too much time describing the drapes or the landscape and I get annoyed if they tell me the protagonist is a blonde bombshell or a muscled mustachioed rancher with a cowboy hat after I’ve already created an image for them in my head.
ReplyDeleteThere was one moment in the chapter where it felt like Laplante was directly addressing my opinion on that. She said “Beginning writing students often only say ‘I want the reader to identify with the story by imagining the first car he or she ever owned, so I’m not going to describe this car in detail.’ No. It’s one of the mysteries of writing that in order to evoke a universal reaction or emotion you must use the tools of specificity.”
This contradicting mystery baffled me at first, but while reading Grace Paley’s “Mother” I understood exactly what LaPlante meant. The mother described in the passage is given careful details to describe her individual character and personality. She’s not left vague enough for me to place my own mother in her shoes. However, because there are so many details I’m able to easily empathize with the narrator and with the mother. Then I’m able to reflect on my own mother and our relationship in a way that I probably wouldn’t have done if Paley had been vague in her descriptions.
With all this in mind I’ve been forced to reconsider the way I felt about imagery and details in my fiction. However, I didn’t agree with everything LaPlante said.
After showing us Sylvia Plath’s poem “Tulips” Laplante says “A good metaphor gives us a little shock: it stretches our imagination by forcing us to see something in a new light, yet it also immediately convinces us that it is true.”
After reading that statement I thought LaPlante was being a little too optimistic about the usefulness of metaphors. I didn’t feel much about Plath’s poem, I didn’t feel any strong emotional shock or truth. I simply felt that it was a pretty poem with nice imagery. I could only guess what emotions Plath was aiming for, or which emotions LaPlante felt while reading it.
That said I do agree that metaphors, symbols, and themes are the frosting on the cake- so to speak. Which was LaPlante’s main point. Writers should first focus on small scenes and details before worrying about plot maps and grandiose insights on the human condition.
Andrea "Andy" De Llano
I always knew the importance of details, but I’m always amazed by how even the simplest sentence can be highly strengthened from them. Reading some of the examples in Chapter 3 was great for me, specifically the sentences of “My father hated noise.” and “She had a drinking problem.” The additional details added to these sentences in the transition from general/abstract to specific changes the sentence from slightly informative highly visual, and also greatly describes the characters more to give the reader an understanding of the traits and personality the character may have. I like telling people that words have power, and these examples were great to define just the kind of power words have.
ReplyDeleteOverall, I can’t decide whether I truly enjoyed the story. I liked aspects of it, and there are some I didn’t like. It felt very informative to me due to the immense details, the amount of details gave characters a lot of personality and also helps the reader visually see the setting and what’s happening or in it. I believe details should be used in moderation, there are some sections of the story that don’t need the additional information.
Jesus Pena
Well to start off, I didn’t know there was cheating in creative writing, or better mentioned, that what the book calls “cheating” was considered to be cheating. Anyway, the book briefly gives a small piece from Hamlet, and the chapter mentions how Hamlet sees things differently due to his mood which is, I believe, important to the writing we create due to it being reflected. And I don’t necessarily believe that the state or mood from the character are reflected ONLY, but the writer him/herself is being reflected as well, depending on their own mood or state etc. This idea goes along with how the LaPlante mentions that imagery is one’s way to reaching into our own subconscious and discovering what we think about a particular object, person or place which I thought was quite interesting. Another thing I’ll like to point out is how the book mentions to not be adding random metaphors into one’s story, as this creates a bad work of writing. I’ve always been taught to put them, regardless. Or another topic discussed which is not necessarily bad, is being messy or complex which I think I relate when it comes to my own writing because I am. And as far as the short story, I don’t only think it’s a phenomenal story, but it’s a great example for the chapter revolving around detail. For instance, in the second paragraph, the things they carried are incredibly well detailed, from what they don’t carry a lot of to survival equipment.
ReplyDelete-Lizbet Cantu
As someone who struggles constantly with descriptions, the chapter Details, Details definitely helps. I think that I am awful or just not good at having good descriptions. In fact, when my work was workshopped, there were minor comments about clichéd metaphors/similes. This is why I particularly liked the section Use and Abuse of Metaphor. I really like the element ‘conceit’ and would love to experiment with it. I also love the section on symbols. That was an element I attempted to play with in my own short story. While this chapter does have certain information writers already know about it, it does not hurt to revisit that information. For someone who is struggling with their own short story, especially with details and imagery wise, this chapter does help with some examples. I really enjoyed the example LaPlante provides which is an exercise on imagery in which to imagine yourself blind and to describe the objects of the world around you without the sense of vision. In conclusion, this chapter is really great for someone who is struggling with imagery and descriptions aka me.
ReplyDeleteThe short story “The Things They Carried” is a perfect example for this chapter. What Tim O’Brien does is provide these incredible descriptive images for several characters. These descriptions not only add to the character but also to the overall story. Because Lt. Cross is so distracted with Martha (this is massively seen throughout the story), after one of the soldiers is killed, he takes notice of his incompetence and decides to burn the things of Martha. These descriptions are crucial to the story because if they weren’t around, this story would be much shorter; there wouldn’t be a clear understanding of the soldiers, especially Lt. Cross’ relationship with Martha. O’Brien also correctly does descriptions by using the five sense rather than just sight just like LaPlante addresses in the chapter.
Emily D'Gyves
When I first started undergrad, forever ago, I was obstinately against looking for symbols in writing. I was One of Those People who insisted that writers did not write stories with the intention of details to be picked apart and analyzed for meaning. While I now know I was being arrogant and, as Isaac Asimov would say, anti-intellectual, I think that still, maybe, I was onto something but for the wrong reasons: LaPlante writes in this chapter that forcing symbols shrinks a story and comes off as trite, while a good story’s details will create the story’s meaning. What my younger self really felt was the insincerity of forcing symbols in general because some professors will insist that details in stories were placed there deliberately by the writer as a symbol. This story clarifies that good writing doesn’t do that, but that the story’s meaning will develop naturally if told specifically and well.
ReplyDelete“The Things They Carried,” infamously read in basically every creative writing course ever, is full of specific details. Not assuming whether O’Brien sat down at his typewriter (or whatever) and thought to himself, “I’m going to write a story in which the characters are carrying heavy objects to symbolize heavy emotional weight,” his details definitely do create that symbol. This is more of the “show, don’t tell” rule— details will help to show rather than outright telling. The muddy descriptions of the setting sound heavy in themselves and help add to the theme of working through heaviness.
-Nicole Hawke
Chapter three was about the importance of imagery. This is an important narrative element that is hard to master because one needs to find a balance between general, specific, abstract and concrete. The examples in this chapter were very helpful to my understanding of the subject. My favorite part was when she wrote that we need to “crowd the reader out of their own world”. We need to use all the senses to create imagery that is capable to convince the reader their part of the story. I didn’t like the metaphor section because LePlante begins by speaking about its importance and potential use, but then later tells us that it shouldn’t be used too often. This was also the first time I see the forest and tree quote, but I was able to understand what LePlante meant by including it in the chapter’s introduction. I learned what dead metaphors are, which I thought was really interesting. I wish LePlante talked a little more on how and why clichés become dead metaphors. I liked the two exercises, the first one being super fun to do and experiment with. “The Things They Carried” was a great example of a story that gives a lot of imagery, and uses it to help the narration. Throughout the story the author uses details to describe the characters. We get to learn who the soldiers are by learning what they carry with them. My favorite part was that they didn’t tell us the setting of the story, instead hinting, and building on it. We learn they’re in a war and as we keep reading we learned it was the Vietnam War.
ReplyDeleteFlavio Hernandez
I enjoyed reading this chapter. Though it did have some of the basics it gave me a refreshed view on imagery and what it consists of. I liked how La Plante stated that with imagery we are conveying how we feel, how our feelings/moods affect the way we view the world therefore affecting the way we write. Though I did not agree with her completely in the "On Crowding Out the Reader," the chapter was really good. And to be honest I do enjoy imagery, but for some stories less is more, in my opinion. I also enjoyed the part of the "dead similes and metaphors." The last short story, "Mother," was probably one of the examples I have liked best and enjoyed how La Plante analyzed the images given through the paragraphs.
ReplyDeleteI'd heard a lot about "The Things They Carried," through out my lifespan, but had never actually read it. I really liked the story. The story's use of imagery suited the chapters lesson fairly well, and it made the story very interesting. One of my favorite parts is where Kiowa is amazed by the Lieutenant's agony/mourning death. I could just see and feel what Kiowa was.
Daniela Hernández
The chapter on details, details was very interesting. At first I felt like it was dragging on for a bit but once I got to reading how sometimes metaphors can been too much and predictable I got to thinking about my own writing, especially in my poetry. I really liked the examples that were given, most of the time I find that this book will give examples that are to lengthy however with his chapter it was a great way to get the meaning of the definitions the different writing methods across.
ReplyDeleteThe story on the things that they carried was actually a fast read for me I really enjoyed the use of the scenes. When the author would say that a certain coat weighed a certain amount I would think back to my backpack and try and see how much it weighs. The ending to me was a bit strange but I loved reading it. I really enjoyed the impart of the Burning of the picture and kind of replacing one thing with another. Almost like he was making the death easier by getting rid of the distraction. I kept thinking through the entire thing that the physical things that they carried outside and a deeper meaning for the things they carried on the inside. One of my favorite parts was when everyone took a moment to consider if the lutenist cared. Made him more human more likable. Made the things he carried more real.
Evelyn Lopez
Straight up, I’m a total novice. I want to write but I tend to be very general about my craft. It’s something I want to fix and this chapter gave me the bitch slap I’ve been looking for. When I write, I usually do it very bland. I like for the reader to figure out things but if I’m being honest, I usually do it in a rush. When I write, a spark tends to happen, where your story ends up coming out on its own. I don’t usually re-write that part, because it ended up taking a life of its own. That’s sloppy. I learned in this chapter that I should take my time to examine what’s around me. For the reader, to truly be encapsulated into a story, some details are crucial. I like writing that is sometimes short and simple but then there are stories like Tim O’Brien The Things They Carried, that really get me invested as a reader.
ReplyDeleteI already know, that I’m a beginner. The chapter nailed everything that a beginning writer does. For example, the eyes are a metaphor that I’ve used and over-overused time after time. It’s okay to be more creative. I feel with this chapter, it helped me understand that I need to take my time and not to rush the story.
The Things They Carried, was so good. I enjoyed the back and forth from Jimmy Cross and the supplies that soldiers carry. The story is so honest, I got bored of the Soldier and his lost love troupe years ago but this take on it was original. I liked that Cross gave up his fantasy of being with a girl who doesn’t love him. The detail over the supplies is a big part but the details in the picture that Jimmy cross was holding left a mark. The grayness in her eyes and the shadow of the person who took the photo, Whoa!
Mathew Betancourt
Details have been a sort of Achilles heel to me throughout my time as a writer. The first comments I have received when submitting work for review focused on the lack of detail, or need for more specificity, and less generalization. For some time, I held the notion that writing a great amount of detail only slowed down the action of a story, or its progress. I later learned that details added to certain parts of the story enhanced its delivery and effect, and that I had to be mindful of such places.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter was a little complex for me, as it almost overwhelmed me with the amount of information it provided. However, I believe that it’s about the different kinds of details that we as readers include in the story, and how the strategic use of these will maximize the effect of our work. The examples provided have helped me understand the chapter’s content, so I will reread it a couple of times to fully grasp it.
Perhaps my favorite sections of the chapter were the dual-leveled imagery and the use and abuse of metaphors. The former compares the differences between details of our stories’ worlds that only describe those worlds with the details that describe a certain character’s perspective of said worlds. Both are crucial in creating a good story (or so I believe), and they do not necessarily have to fall into “cliché territory” to be relatable or understandable. They could be unique to a certain character’s perspective to truly bring that character to life.
I liked how LaPlante tackled the issue of the metaphor. Yes, metaphors are great and can make the story more riveting and colorful, but they can also bog it down and make it dull and boring. I particularly liked how she stated that overt reliance on metaphors can hurt your work instead of help it. I agree with her when she stated that metaphors should evolve within the story, and that they should be easily understood instead of figured out.
“The Things They Carried” was very interesting. It showered readers with a vast amount of detail regarding objects the soldiers carried, and how they defined them as people. I particularly liked the fact that Tim O’Brien decided to describe these carried objects in detail to bring these characters to life, and not the characters themselves. I believe this writing strategy has not been used often, and it is perhaps just as effective as describing the person directly. I enjoyed the special care he employed in ensuring that each character had as much uniqueness as possible so they could add to the story, and not become unnecessary characters.
Overall, this chapter was interesting. It was packed with information that made it a little harder to understand, but I’m sure that a couple rereads will help me fully understand it.
Pedro Cano